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	<title>Comments on: Backlash: Does Fan-Engagement Do More Harm Than Good?</title>
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	<description>save the music - not the industry.</description>
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		<title>By: Today&#8217;s headlines, Tuesday December 02 &#124; fyimusic.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3278</link>
		<dc:creator>Today&#8217;s headlines, Tuesday December 02 &#124; fyimusic.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3278</guid>
		<description>[...] Does fan engagement do more harm than good? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does fan engagement do more harm than good? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3235</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3235</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, why would anyone care if they were connecting with a musician rather than just some guy/girl they met on the street? Well, because they&#039;re a musician!

Sure, the days of untouchable glam rock jerks are over - that level of mystique is nearly impossible in our connected world. And the world is probably better for it. But there is still something that draws people to musicians and artists, and actors and atheletes for that matter. 

If it weren&#039;t for this draw no one would be talking about fan engagement or connecting with fans in the first place because it wouldn&#039;t be valuable. 

So while I don&#039;t necessarily disagree with your points, I would still argue that the only reason Ben Walker&#039;s (to use your example) flickr group cared enough to &#039;invite him behind their curtain&#039; was because of the pedestal that people naturally place artists on.

It may not be rational, and technology is certainly diminishing this effect, but it still seems to be the lynchpin for any business that is build around fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, why would anyone care if they were connecting with a musician rather than just some guy/girl they met on the street? Well, because they&#8217;re a musician!</p>
<p>Sure, the days of untouchable glam rock jerks are over &#8211; that level of mystique is nearly impossible in our connected world. And the world is probably better for it. But there is still something that draws people to musicians and artists, and actors and atheletes for that matter. </p>
<p>If it weren&#8217;t for this draw no one would be talking about fan engagement or connecting with fans in the first place because it wouldn&#8217;t be valuable. </p>
<p>So while I don&#8217;t necessarily disagree with your points, I would still argue that the only reason Ben Walker&#8217;s (to use your example) flickr group cared enough to &#8216;invite him behind their curtain&#8217; was because of the pedestal that people naturally place artists on.</p>
<p>It may not be rational, and technology is certainly diminishing this effect, but it still seems to be the lynchpin for any business that is build around fans.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Denison</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Denison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree. Dont get me wrong, Im an advocate of &quot;engagement&quot;, but we have to understand that its horses for courses. A lot of artists are not cut out for it, would do it badly, and are therefore better off not doing it. Not necessarily a bad thing.

They will find a way. There are plently of early-adopters, super fans and casual fans that feel exactly the same as them, and they will discover each other in their own way.

&quot;The purpose of productive fan engagement is to bring fans backstage, not the other way around.&quot;

Im sorry refe but I dont like this at all. Are we not past the word &quot;engagement&quot; yet? Its so one way. So narcissistic. As if the artists life and creative process are the only thing that&#039;s interesting in the deal. 

Like being at a dinner party an listening all night to someone be &quot;engaging&quot; about themselves, and never asking about you.

It is this category of engagement activities which I find off-putting.

Connecting is about a relationship. Not engagement. You dont just invite the &quot;fan&quot; metaphorically backstage to be part of the &quot;in crowd&quot;. How condescending. You build relationships with people (not fans) based on common ground, respect and interest in each other, as equals. 

Technology has been a great leveller in that respect. The stage curtain is well and truly down and if artists want to be &quot;engaging&quot; they are going to have to learn to be people like the rest of us.

I do agree that time is of the essence for artists who do take this root, there are only so many friends a music fan can have! Artists should be out there trying to become part of other peoples &quot;in crowds&quot;, nicely. (Example for illustration: (No Disclosure, Ive never met the man) Ben Walker getting &quot;in&quot; with his local flickr group. They invited him behind their curtain. http://bit.ly/5hjqGt )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree. Dont get me wrong, Im an advocate of &#8220;engagement&#8221;, but we have to understand that its horses for courses. A lot of artists are not cut out for it, would do it badly, and are therefore better off not doing it. Not necessarily a bad thing.</p>
<p>They will find a way. There are plently of early-adopters, super fans and casual fans that feel exactly the same as them, and they will discover each other in their own way.</p>
<p>&#8220;The purpose of productive fan engagement is to bring fans backstage, not the other way around.&#8221;</p>
<p>Im sorry refe but I dont like this at all. Are we not past the word &#8220;engagement&#8221; yet? Its so one way. So narcissistic. As if the artists life and creative process are the only thing that&#8217;s interesting in the deal. </p>
<p>Like being at a dinner party an listening all night to someone be &#8220;engaging&#8221; about themselves, and never asking about you.</p>
<p>It is this category of engagement activities which I find off-putting.</p>
<p>Connecting is about a relationship. Not engagement. You dont just invite the &#8220;fan&#8221; metaphorically backstage to be part of the &#8220;in crowd&#8221;. How condescending. You build relationships with people (not fans) based on common ground, respect and interest in each other, as equals. </p>
<p>Technology has been a great leveller in that respect. The stage curtain is well and truly down and if artists want to be &#8220;engaging&#8221; they are going to have to learn to be people like the rest of us.</p>
<p>I do agree that time is of the essence for artists who do take this root, there are only so many friends a music fan can have! Artists should be out there trying to become part of other peoples &#8220;in crowds&#8221;, nicely. (Example for illustration: (No Disclosure, Ive never met the man) Ben Walker getting &#8220;in&#8221; with his local flickr group. They invited him behind their curtain. <a href="http://bit.ly/5hjqGt" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/5hjqGt</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: Eugenia</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3091</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugenia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3091</guid>
		<description>This is absolutely true. I know of a specific artist living close to me that even by mentioning updating his own web site he gets all grampy. And he doesn&#039;t even want to shoot a music video either. He specifically told me &quot;I don&#039;t want to have a director getting artsy with my art&quot;. I am a very difficult person to offend (since I&#039;m outspoken myself), but that did offend me.

I think that 90% of the current (or past generation) musicians who won&#039;t get into all this online marketing actively, they will have to eventually get a new job. Their loss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absolutely true. I know of a specific artist living close to me that even by mentioning updating his own web site he gets all grampy. And he doesn&#8217;t even want to shoot a music video either. He specifically told me &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to have a director getting artsy with my art&#8221;. I am a very difficult person to offend (since I&#8217;m outspoken myself), but that did offend me.</p>
<p>I think that 90% of the current (or past generation) musicians who won&#8217;t get into all this online marketing actively, they will have to eventually get a new job. Their loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3081</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3081</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve come to think that a number of musicians are fundamentally anti-social. They like making music with other musicians, but if you suggest they network, especially with non-musicians, they don&#039;t want to do it.

I think many of them still have this fantasy that they will make enough money that they can pay someone to do all of that for them. 

Of course, we&#039;re seeing the rise of a new type of artist who not only writes and performs music, but also knows how to both engage fans and make industry contacts. A few are very good at it, many are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve come to think that a number of musicians are fundamentally anti-social. They like making music with other musicians, but if you suggest they network, especially with non-musicians, they don&#8217;t want to do it.</p>
<p>I think many of them still have this fantasy that they will make enough money that they can pay someone to do all of that for them. </p>
<p>Of course, we&#8217;re seeing the rise of a new type of artist who not only writes and performs music, but also knows how to both engage fans and make industry contacts. A few are very good at it, many are not.</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3078</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3078</guid>
		<description>All of which is unfortunate because those activities can result in more opportunities to share the music they&#039;ve created with people who will enjoy it.

Promoting your music has always been a part of making music. At least with social media the artist has more control over the conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of which is unfortunate because those activities can result in more opportunities to share the music they&#8217;ve created with people who will enjoy it.</p>
<p>Promoting your music has always been a part of making music. At least with social media the artist has more control over the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3077</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3077</guid>
		<description>None of the artists I know personally do enough with social media. It&#039;s a combination reasons:

1. Not wanting to put in the time.
2. Not knowing how to effectively express themselves.
3. Not wanting to engage with fans that much.

I&#039;ve watched some of them not even respond to emails and comments. I can understand when you start getting an overwhelming amount (in which case you either say you can&#039;t respond to everyone or you hire someone who at least acknowledges the emails and comments), but none of the artists I know gets anywhere close to an overwhelming amount.

I think it has more to do with the fact that they got into music as the way they chose to express themselves and they don&#039;t really want to deal with anything else. They feel it&#039;s a demand on their time rather than something enjoyable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of the artists I know personally do enough with social media. It&#8217;s a combination reasons:</p>
<p>1. Not wanting to put in the time.<br />
2. Not knowing how to effectively express themselves.<br />
3. Not wanting to engage with fans that much.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve watched some of them not even respond to emails and comments. I can understand when you start getting an overwhelming amount (in which case you either say you can&#8217;t respond to everyone or you hire someone who at least acknowledges the emails and comments), but none of the artists I know gets anywhere close to an overwhelming amount.</p>
<p>I think it has more to do with the fact that they got into music as the way they chose to express themselves and they don&#8217;t really want to deal with anything else. They feel it&#8217;s a demand on their time rather than something enjoyable.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugenia</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3075</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugenia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3075</guid>
		<description>Finally, being an artist is an allure in itself. You don&#039;t only sell music, you sell a lifestyle and philosophy too. If that&#039;s good or not, it&#039;s another subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, being an artist is an allure in itself. You don&#8217;t only sell music, you sell a lifestyle and philosophy too. If that&#8217;s good or not, it&#8217;s another subject.</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3072</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3072</guid>
		<description>Well, with hair like that how could you resist?

I agree with you, but I see both sides of the argument. I really like what the previous commenter Julie D. said:

&lt;em&gt;The purpose of productive fan engagement is to bring fans backstage, not the other way around.&lt;/em&gt;

I think there&#039;s some merit to this, because what it does is flip the artists perspective a little. You can interact with your fans all you want, but make them feel like they are being drawn into an experience, a connection and a community, rather than making them feel like you are chasing after them to hawk your wares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, with hair like that how could you resist?</p>
<p>I agree with you, but I see both sides of the argument. I really like what the previous commenter Julie D. said:</p>
<p><em>The purpose of productive fan engagement is to bring fans backstage, not the other way around.</em></p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s some merit to this, because what it does is flip the artists perspective a little. You can interact with your fans all you want, but make them feel like they are being drawn into an experience, a connection and a community, rather than making them feel like you are chasing after them to hawk your wares.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugenia</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/11/backlash-does-fan-engagement-do-more-harm-than-good/comment-page-1/#comment-3071</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugenia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2683#comment-3071</guid>
		<description>John Taylor -- who I wanted to get married to in the &#039;80s -- has it wrong. Saying that the artist mystique is going to get destroyed by the social media is a backwards opinion. Him, coming from the &#039;80s, where every girl wanted to be with him, sees the whole thing from that point of view. But today, it makes more sense to connect with the artist rather than be far away from him/her. Personally, I unfollow bands that don&#039;t reply on questions on Twitter. If I can&#039;t feel connected to them, I go away.

And besides, is it better to have the paparazzis to shape your image to the fans, or doing that yourself? I am sure that doing that yourself is a better strategy rather than having sleazy paparazzis and bloggers like Perez shredding your credibility apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Taylor &#8212; who I wanted to get married to in the &#8217;80s &#8212; has it wrong. Saying that the artist mystique is going to get destroyed by the social media is a backwards opinion. Him, coming from the &#8217;80s, where every girl wanted to be with him, sees the whole thing from that point of view. But today, it makes more sense to connect with the artist rather than be far away from him/her. Personally, I unfollow bands that don&#8217;t reply on questions on Twitter. If I can&#8217;t feel connected to them, I go away.</p>
<p>And besides, is it better to have the paparazzis to shape your image to the fans, or doing that yourself? I am sure that doing that yourself is a better strategy rather than having sleazy paparazzis and bloggers like Perez shredding your credibility apart.</p>
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