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	<title>Comments on: Targeting and Converting Potential Fans</title>
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	<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/</link>
	<description>save the music - not the industry.</description>
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		<title>By: Plugola Inc. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Latest Press on Plugola</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-3514</link>
		<dc:creator>Plugola Inc. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Latest Press on Plugola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-3514</guid>
		<description>[...] Creative Deconstruction: DIY music-marketing blog, Creative deconstruction, blurbs us in their article on musicians targeting their fans. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Creative Deconstruction: DIY music-marketing blog, Creative deconstruction, blurbs us in their article on musicians targeting their fans. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Deibel</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2125</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Deibel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2125</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say Amanda Palmer is taking things to a higher level. I am only pointing out that she is getting her fans to communicate with each other. Whether she knows it or not, she is creating a community of fans, not just fans. 

Thriving fan communities happen all the time and in different ways. Look at the success of Phish. When they tour, their fans travel for weeks on end to see a block of shows and when they aren&#039;t at the shows they are watching live updates of the setlist via websites and blogs specifically geared towards the band. Pearl Jam, NIN and Clay Aiken (they call themselves Claymates) are more great examples of vibrant fan communities fueling the band&#039;s economy.

Amanda Palmer isn&#039;t doing anything new by creating a community around her music; however, she is offering up a different way to communicate with her fans by creating one off experiences where access to entry is minimal (internet connection &amp; twitter account). Cruises are great for an older audience that has more disposable income, but that wouldn&#039;t work as well for Palmer&#039;s younger crowd.

It all comes down to knowing your fans and finding authentic ways to engage with them and the cultivate a community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say Amanda Palmer is taking things to a higher level. I am only pointing out that she is getting her fans to communicate with each other. Whether she knows it or not, she is creating a community of fans, not just fans. </p>
<p>Thriving fan communities happen all the time and in different ways. Look at the success of Phish. When they tour, their fans travel for weeks on end to see a block of shows and when they aren&#8217;t at the shows they are watching live updates of the setlist via websites and blogs specifically geared towards the band. Pearl Jam, NIN and Clay Aiken (they call themselves Claymates) are more great examples of vibrant fan communities fueling the band&#8217;s economy.</p>
<p>Amanda Palmer isn&#8217;t doing anything new by creating a community around her music; however, she is offering up a different way to communicate with her fans by creating one off experiences where access to entry is minimal (internet connection &amp; twitter account). Cruises are great for an older audience that has more disposable income, but that wouldn&#8217;t work as well for Palmer&#8217;s younger crowd.</p>
<p>It all comes down to knowing your fans and finding authentic ways to engage with them and the cultivate a community.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kasiewicz</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2122</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kasiewicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2122</guid>
		<description>Thank you for mentioning that live performance is key.  It sounds like some people have forgotten that music isn&#039;t just a product to be hustled on social networks or licensed to reality TV.  My passion for music was cultivated on attending live concerts.  I&#039;d hate to see that disappear anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for mentioning that live performance is key.  It sounds like some people have forgotten that music isn&#8217;t just a product to be hustled on social networks or licensed to reality TV.  My passion for music was cultivated on attending live concerts.  I&#8217;d hate to see that disappear anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2087</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2087</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t paid too much attention to the extent to which Palmer has gotten her fans talking to each other. I think the greatest example of fan communities are those where people collect at various events around the year. A number of local bands have regulars that show up for lots of shows and know each other. String Cheese Incident had annual vacation trips where fans would go and stay at a hotel and hear the band. Roger Clyne is doing something similar twice a year in Mexico.

So I think the community of fans part has been done in a variety of ways for quite awhile. I don&#039;t think Palmer has necessarily taken that aspect to a higher level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t paid too much attention to the extent to which Palmer has gotten her fans talking to each other. I think the greatest example of fan communities are those where people collect at various events around the year. A number of local bands have regulars that show up for lots of shows and know each other. String Cheese Incident had annual vacation trips where fans would go and stay at a hotel and hear the band. Roger Clyne is doing something similar twice a year in Mexico.</p>
<p>So I think the community of fans part has been done in a variety of ways for quite awhile. I don&#8217;t think Palmer has necessarily taken that aspect to a higher level.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Deibel</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2086</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Deibel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2086</guid>
		<description>I think Amanda Palmer is on to something more than being interesting. Is she interesting? Yes. However, the success of her sharpie/twitter/postcard money making extravaganza was more than about being interesting.  It was about converting fans into a community. 

Artists have a limited number of hours in the day to twitter, write, promote, perform their music and are always debating how much time to put into each activity to get the greatest outcome.  Amanda built a community where fans are engaging with each other even when the artist is out working on other things. Now, not only to do the fans feel connected to Amanda, they also feel connected to each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Amanda Palmer is on to something more than being interesting. Is she interesting? Yes. However, the success of her sharpie/twitter/postcard money making extravaganza was more than about being interesting.  It was about converting fans into a community. </p>
<p>Artists have a limited number of hours in the day to twitter, write, promote, perform their music and are always debating how much time to put into each activity to get the greatest outcome.  Amanda built a community where fans are engaging with each other even when the artist is out working on other things. Now, not only to do the fans feel connected to Amanda, they also feel connected to each other.</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2066</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2066</guid>
		<description>That is one business model, yes. It&#039;s always been around I suppose, but it&#039;s getting much more common lately. 

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the only model, though. There are still bands who live off their music, performances and the related merchandise. In that model - which is the traditional model - the other stuff those artists do (interviews, appearances, social media interactions, etc.) support the artist&#039;s ability to make music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is one business model, yes. It&#8217;s always been around I suppose, but it&#8217;s getting much more common lately. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the only model, though. There are still bands who live off their music, performances and the related merchandise. In that model &#8211; which is the traditional model &#8211; the other stuff those artists do (interviews, appearances, social media interactions, etc.) support the artist&#8217;s ability to make music.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2065</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2065</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you can sum up the trend now (and I think Amanda Palmer is the prime example): Music is what makes you interesting, but you get paid for being interesting, not for playing music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you can sum up the trend now (and I think Amanda Palmer is the prime example): Music is what makes you interesting, but you get paid for being interesting, not for playing music.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Huxley</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2064</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Huxley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2064</guid>
		<description>There are hundreds of bands who make it to step 7, the leap to step 8 is much more rarely made. The key is in &quot;doing&quot;. As per, I suspect, Martin Atkins (@marteen), Steve Lawson (@solobasssteve), and myself, a significant portion of our paid time is spent talking about how to make money from music. Our music output is part of why people are interested in us, and is part of why we get paid. Andrew Dubber (@dubber) gives away his free eBook at www.newmusicstrategies.com and at Unconvention (@unconvention) Swansea stated &quot;I don&#039;t get paid for the words I write, I get paid Because of the words I write&quot;.

For me it means that the band I&#039;m part of (www.hopeandsocial.com) and the label we set up is part of the reason that people want me, for rock schools, guitar lessons, speaking at conferences, universities etc.

I think of it like this; attention and interest is the commodity now. As for the band, it&#039;s a part of my income, however it doesn&#039;t pay the mortgage... It does mean that I can pay the mortgage however, and without it, I&#039;d have a whole lot less to be interesting about. And interest is the commodity. More on this in my very own Creative Deconstruction blog soon.
Woop.
Rich
x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are hundreds of bands who make it to step 7, the leap to step 8 is much more rarely made. The key is in &#8220;doing&#8221;. As per, I suspect, Martin Atkins (@marteen), Steve Lawson (@solobasssteve), and myself, a significant portion of our paid time is spent talking about how to make money from music. Our music output is part of why people are interested in us, and is part of why we get paid. Andrew Dubber (@dubber) gives away his free eBook at <a href="http://www.newmusicstrategies.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.newmusicstrategies.com</a> and at Unconvention (@unconvention) Swansea stated &#8220;I don&#8217;t get paid for the words I write, I get paid Because of the words I write&#8221;.</p>
<p>For me it means that the band I&#8217;m part of (www.hopeandsocial.com) and the label we set up is part of the reason that people want me, for rock schools, guitar lessons, speaking at conferences, universities etc.</p>
<p>I think of it like this; attention and interest is the commodity now. As for the band, it&#8217;s a part of my income, however it doesn&#8217;t pay the mortgage&#8230; It does mean that I can pay the mortgage however, and without it, I&#8217;d have a whole lot less to be interesting about. And interest is the commodity. More on this in my very own Creative Deconstruction blog soon.<br />
Woop.<br />
Rich<br />
x</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2053</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2053</guid>
		<description>What a lot of people who haven&#039;t already done this are likely to wonder is how long might it take to finally generate enough money from music to be able to quit your day job.

For singer/songwriter types, a typical progression is from:

1. Open mic nights.
2. Playing for tips.
3. Putting together a band.
4. Putting out a CD.
5. Opening for bigger acts.
6. Headlining small local clubs.
7. Doing some touring. 
8. Either scraping together enough money to take the leap to do music full-time, going into debt to go full-time, or finding an investor, sponsor, or some other source to put in some money upfront.

Even for talented artists, step 8 can be a stumbling block. Many buzzworthy bands still have day jobs to pay the bills. They play SXSW and CMJ, get written about in a number of national blogs, and still don&#039;t make enough money from music to support themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a lot of people who haven&#8217;t already done this are likely to wonder is how long might it take to finally generate enough money from music to be able to quit your day job.</p>
<p>For singer/songwriter types, a typical progression is from:</p>
<p>1. Open mic nights.<br />
2. Playing for tips.<br />
3. Putting together a band.<br />
4. Putting out a CD.<br />
5. Opening for bigger acts.<br />
6. Headlining small local clubs.<br />
7. Doing some touring.<br />
8. Either scraping together enough money to take the leap to do music full-time, going into debt to go full-time, or finding an investor, sponsor, or some other source to put in some money upfront.</p>
<p>Even for talented artists, step 8 can be a stumbling block. Many buzzworthy bands still have day jobs to pay the bills. They play SXSW and CMJ, get written about in a number of national blogs, and still don&#8217;t make enough money from music to support themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/10/targeting-and-converting-potential-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-2050</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2388#comment-2050</guid>
		<description>I just responded in your first post on this topic on how an artist I know built her career in the Boulder/Denver area.

I don&#039;t know if I need to repost it here, but it covers some of the same points you&#039;ve covered above. I can break it down in even more detail, but I will leave it at that for now.

Basically her career was built, as you say, by starting local and playing lots of shows. She&#039;s an outstanding live performer and gains new fans whenever she plays in front of new people. So she played whenever and whereever she could. She was able to get to a point where she gets a guarantee, but she started out playing for tips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just responded in your first post on this topic on how an artist I know built her career in the Boulder/Denver area.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if I need to repost it here, but it covers some of the same points you&#8217;ve covered above. I can break it down in even more detail, but I will leave it at that for now.</p>
<p>Basically her career was built, as you say, by starting local and playing lots of shows. She&#8217;s an outstanding live performer and gains new fans whenever she plays in front of new people. So she played whenever and whereever she could. She was able to get to a point where she gets a guarantee, but she started out playing for tips.</p>
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