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	<title>Comments on: Copyright and Music &#8211; Do Great Artists Steal?</title>
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	<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/</link>
	<description>save the music - not the industry.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:35:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-4870</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-4870</guid>
		<description>the irony of copyright infringement is there is no legal currency to repay  a judgement thanks to the federal reserve, when ciminals make the laws the innocent become the criminals</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the irony of copyright infringement is there is no legal currency to repay  a judgement thanks to the federal reserve, when ciminals make the laws the innocent become the criminals</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Boland</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-2259</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Boland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-2259</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always been struck by the fact that Creed could build a career off stolen Zeppelin riffs, yet Biz Markie got his career ended for sampling some R&amp;B.  

I&#039;m always telling producers to make friends with musicians and get into the obscure but critical legal sweet spot of &quot;Interpolations&quot; -- definitely the future of hip hop unless the publishing climate loosens up in the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always been struck by the fact that Creed could build a career off stolen Zeppelin riffs, yet Biz Markie got his career ended for sampling some R&amp;B.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m always telling producers to make friends with musicians and get into the obscure but critical legal sweet spot of &#8220;Interpolations&#8221; &#8212; definitely the future of hip hop unless the publishing climate loosens up in the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1722</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1722</guid>
		<description>My last comment isn&#039;t up yet, but I presume it will be, and I wanted to add a thought.

I mentioned that as a writer, I always cite sources of quotes and ideas. I was thinking that at some point we can probably have the technology to mark songs to show where certain parts have come from. Then I realized we already do -- mashups. People are lifting stuff all the time, putting it together in new forms, and proudly citing where they got the original material. So I think we are heading that way anyway, and as long as the original creators are also cited, it&#039;s probably acceptable for most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last comment isn&#8217;t up yet, but I presume it will be, and I wanted to add a thought.</p>
<p>I mentioned that as a writer, I always cite sources of quotes and ideas. I was thinking that at some point we can probably have the technology to mark songs to show where certain parts have come from. Then I realized we already do &#8212; mashups. People are lifting stuff all the time, putting it together in new forms, and proudly citing where they got the original material. So I think we are heading that way anyway, and as long as the original creators are also cited, it&#8217;s probably acceptable for most.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Lainson</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1721</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Lainson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1721</guid>
		<description>As a non-fiction writer, I study other writers both for style and for information. If I quote, or even paraphrase, what someone else has done. I will give credit and cite the original. In my mind, that is good scholarship and allows others to go back and read the source if they want to dig deeper.

If I wrote fiction, I would either be blatant enough about copying someone else&#039;s work that people would know I was using it as a point of reference, or I would intentionally try to avoid duplicating someone else&#039;s work so I wouldn&#039;t be accused of plagiarism. That being said, there are only so many storylines to go around. A lot of novels, TV shows, etc., are pretty formulaic, so a lot of writing is similar to what has already been done. Unless you are actually duplicating dialogue and character description, I think doing similar stories is okay. &quot;Girl meets boy. They have troubles. They get back together.&quot;

As far as music is concerned, yes a lot of work out there is similar to a lot of other work out there. In some cases the artists are trying to do something similar and in other cases  they are so influenced by other music that what comes out is similar. I don&#039;t think songwriters should intentionally write the same song, but it does happen. Should the copiers be penalized if someone realizes the songs are similar? Maybe the original songwriters should be able to share in whatever royalties result from the copies.

Getting back to being a writer. If I write something, I want credit for it. I don&#039;t want someone to lift my words and claim to have written it themselves. I&#039;ve given people permission to reproduce my writing, but I ask that it not be modified and that my name be on it.

These days, when it is hard to get paid for one&#039;s music, writing, etc., you&#039;d at least like to get some recognition for it.

So I&#039;m not sure I want everything to end up in court, but if someone notices that what he/she created was then copied by someone else and no credit was given, I think it is reasonable for the first person to point out to the public the similarities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a non-fiction writer, I study other writers both for style and for information. If I quote, or even paraphrase, what someone else has done. I will give credit and cite the original. In my mind, that is good scholarship and allows others to go back and read the source if they want to dig deeper.</p>
<p>If I wrote fiction, I would either be blatant enough about copying someone else&#8217;s work that people would know I was using it as a point of reference, or I would intentionally try to avoid duplicating someone else&#8217;s work so I wouldn&#8217;t be accused of plagiarism. That being said, there are only so many storylines to go around. A lot of novels, TV shows, etc., are pretty formulaic, so a lot of writing is similar to what has already been done. Unless you are actually duplicating dialogue and character description, I think doing similar stories is okay. &#8220;Girl meets boy. They have troubles. They get back together.&#8221;</p>
<p>As far as music is concerned, yes a lot of work out there is similar to a lot of other work out there. In some cases the artists are trying to do something similar and in other cases  they are so influenced by other music that what comes out is similar. I don&#8217;t think songwriters should intentionally write the same song, but it does happen. Should the copiers be penalized if someone realizes the songs are similar? Maybe the original songwriters should be able to share in whatever royalties result from the copies.</p>
<p>Getting back to being a writer. If I write something, I want credit for it. I don&#8217;t want someone to lift my words and claim to have written it themselves. I&#8217;ve given people permission to reproduce my writing, but I ask that it not be modified and that my name be on it.</p>
<p>These days, when it is hard to get paid for one&#8217;s music, writing, etc., you&#8217;d at least like to get some recognition for it.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not sure I want everything to end up in court, but if someone notices that what he/she created was then copied by someone else and no credit was given, I think it is reasonable for the first person to point out to the public the similarities.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>I was listening to some old tunes I liked back in high school the other day. I was amazed that I could pick out some parts of these songs that were also very clearly similar to my playing &amp; some of the recorded songs where i contributed to the writing process. It&#039;s not that I ripped those parts off. It&#039;s that they just seeped into my subconscious to the point where I didn&#039;t even notice it at the time. I couldn&#039;t say if the average music fan would notice, but I heard it right away. Then i thought, &quot;Oops&quot; lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was listening to some old tunes I liked back in high school the other day. I was amazed that I could pick out some parts of these songs that were also very clearly similar to my playing &amp; some of the recorded songs where i contributed to the writing process. It&#8217;s not that I ripped those parts off. It&#8217;s that they just seeped into my subconscious to the point where I didn&#8217;t even notice it at the time. I couldn&#8217;t say if the average music fan would notice, but I heard it right away. Then i thought, &#8220;Oops&#8221; lol</p>
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		<title>By: Saker jag tyckte var intressanta den 2009-09-23 &#124; Qui bono</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1653</link>
		<dc:creator>Saker jag tyckte var intressanta den 2009-09-23 &#124; Qui bono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1653</guid>
		<description>[...] en mashup med vilken konst/foto eller likn site som helst ;)creative deconstruction &#8211; Copyright and Music &#8211; Do Great Artists Steal? 2009-09-21 &#8211; intressant artikel om musikers l&#229;nga historia av att [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] en mashup med vilken konst/foto eller likn site som helst <img src='http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> creative deconstruction &#8211; Copyright and Music &#8211; Do Great Artists Steal? 2009-09-21 &#8211; intressant artikel om musikers l&#229;nga historia av att [...]</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1639</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1639</guid>
		<description>I think the point I was trying to make with the article was that there are different ways to approach the question of integrity. Is it primarily legal concerns that determine whether or not we borrow from or build off of another artist&#039;s work, or does it have more to do with a sort of &#039;code of artists&#039; for lack of a better term?

Because if it&#039;s a legal concern that is artificially limiting artists&#039; ability to create art, I think the law should be changed rather than our behaviors.

I do agree that if money is the motive you can almost guarantee that the integrity of the act is questionable. But if the aim is truly to create a work of art or music that is different, better or transformed I think that should be approached differently.

Obviously, the law doesn&#039;t concern itself much with motives. That&#039;s why the creation of a &#039;transformative work&#039; is considered fair use under current copyright law. It&#039;s about the resulting piece of art. 

A blatant copy is a blatant copy - but a new work that has resulted from the transformation of a work that came before is something that should be celebrated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point I was trying to make with the article was that there are different ways to approach the question of integrity. Is it primarily legal concerns that determine whether or not we borrow from or build off of another artist&#8217;s work, or does it have more to do with a sort of &#8216;code of artists&#8217; for lack of a better term?</p>
<p>Because if it&#8217;s a legal concern that is artificially limiting artists&#8217; ability to create art, I think the law should be changed rather than our behaviors.</p>
<p>I do agree that if money is the motive you can almost guarantee that the integrity of the act is questionable. But if the aim is truly to create a work of art or music that is different, better or transformed I think that should be approached differently.</p>
<p>Obviously, the law doesn&#8217;t concern itself much with motives. That&#8217;s why the creation of a &#8216;transformative work&#8217; is considered fair use under current copyright law. It&#8217;s about the resulting piece of art. </p>
<p>A blatant copy is a blatant copy &#8211; but a new work that has resulted from the transformation of a work that came before is something that should be celebrated.</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1638</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1638</guid>
		<description>I agree that if you are taking something directly from another source credit should be given, even if it is slightly modified.

However, the question of whether credit needs to be given (legally speaking) for transformative use of copyrighted material remains to be answered. 

There&#039;s a high-profile case right now related to those famous Obama &#039;Hope&#039; posters. The guy who made those posters is being sued because the Obama portrait is actually a significantly altered copy of a photograph taken by someone else.

In that case I believe credit is exactly what&#039;s at issue - I don&#039;t believe there will be much question as to whether the piece is &#039;transformative.&#039;

I think that whether or not credit should be given is as much a matter of conscience as it is a matter of law. A significantly altered melody or chord progression may be all but unrecognizable as a copy of the original. Should credit be given? If so, what would that look like?

&quot;So-and-so&#039;s melody was to some degree the inspiration for the second half of the third line of the chorus underneath the main vocal melody.&quot;

I&#039;m making light of it a little bit, but my point is that there are many, many different degrees of &#039;copying&#039; - from entire works to little pieces, textures, feelings or grooves. I think each needs to be treated within the context of the new work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that if you are taking something directly from another source credit should be given, even if it is slightly modified.</p>
<p>However, the question of whether credit needs to be given (legally speaking) for transformative use of copyrighted material remains to be answered. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a high-profile case right now related to those famous Obama &#8216;Hope&#8217; posters. The guy who made those posters is being sued because the Obama portrait is actually a significantly altered copy of a photograph taken by someone else.</p>
<p>In that case I believe credit is exactly what&#8217;s at issue &#8211; I don&#8217;t believe there will be much question as to whether the piece is &#8216;transformative.&#8217;</p>
<p>I think that whether or not credit should be given is as much a matter of conscience as it is a matter of law. A significantly altered melody or chord progression may be all but unrecognizable as a copy of the original. Should credit be given? If so, what would that look like?</p>
<p>&#8220;So-and-so&#8217;s melody was to some degree the inspiration for the second half of the third line of the chorus underneath the main vocal melody.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m making light of it a little bit, but my point is that there are many, many different degrees of &#8216;copying&#8217; &#8211; from entire works to little pieces, textures, feelings or grooves. I think each needs to be treated within the context of the new work.</p>
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		<title>By: refe</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1637</link>
		<dc:creator>refe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1637</guid>
		<description>I agree - copyright law is designed to ensure that money can be made from the creation of art. That in itself isn&#039;t a bad thing, obviously. The problem is that in many cases the protection of profits can actually prevent artistic expression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree &#8211; copyright law is designed to ensure that money can be made from the creation of art. That in itself isn&#8217;t a bad thing, obviously. The problem is that in many cases the protection of profits can actually prevent artistic expression.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/2009/09/copyright-and-music-great-artists-steal/comment-page-1/#comment-1634</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.creativedeconstruction.com/?p=2122#comment-1634</guid>
		<description>Martie makes really good points about the whole integrity issue. It appears that &quot;big&quot; artists are like &quot;big&quot; business. They just don&#039;t care what people think...and more importantly, think they are so big, they can get away with it.
Big shot lawyers have always proved them right!

Art should be full of integrity...but if it&#039;s the bottom line someone is after...integrity goes out the window. 

I for one will never view Coldplay the same way again.
Janet Hansen
Scout66.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martie makes really good points about the whole integrity issue. It appears that &#8220;big&#8221; artists are like &#8220;big&#8221; business. They just don&#8217;t care what people think&#8230;and more importantly, think they are so big, they can get away with it.<br />
Big shot lawyers have always proved them right!</p>
<p>Art should be full of integrity&#8230;but if it&#8217;s the bottom line someone is after&#8230;integrity goes out the window. </p>
<p>I for one will never view Coldplay the same way again.<br />
Janet Hansen<br />
Scout66.com</p>
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